Where does art end and design start? Initially conceived by Hans Ulrich Obrist and Marc Spiegler over ten years ago, the series of Conversations ‘The Artist as. . .’ – which serves as the inspiration for these interviews – attempted to unpack what happens when visual artists turn their hand to other fields: be it dancing or farming. But the very idea of distinction between creative fields crumbles when considering the towering figure of Gaetano Pesce. For the last six decades, the Italian-born New Yorker has effortlessly moved between architecture, industrial design, urban planning, and the visual arts – always railing against any imposed categorizations. Whether it’s through a building, a chair, a shoe, or a sculpture, his output obeys one single imperative: the need to respond to the present moment.

For the upcoming edition of Paris+ par Art Basel, Pesce will present a monumental sculpture in the Jardin des Tuileries as part of the exhibition ‘La Cinquième Saison’ curated by the incoming director of the Louvre Lens, Annabelle Ténèze. Initially designed – over 40 years ago – as a lamp, Double Heart (2022) shows two hearts pierced by a cartoonish arrow. Over 5m high, it will glow at night like a beacon – an invitation to celebrate love nestled in the heart of the French capital. A week before the opening, I caught up with Pesce.

You’ve always rejected the separation between creative fields – and have spoken out against the ‘hierarchies of expression.’ Why is this important? 

I come from Italy, and in Italy, artists, designers, architects don’t differentiate between one media and another. What makes you go from one to the other is the idea: if you have a good idea that won’t work for architecture, you express it with design. If you have another one that is good for architecture but not for art, you make an architectural project. That’s how I work. There is no barrier between one area of culture and another. 

Can you introduce the piece you are presenting in Paris, Double Heart (2022)?

This object is significant because it has meaning in a moment when the world is not doing so well. So many stupid people are in positions of power, and they are doing serious damage. Art and design have a very significant role to play. The work I’m presenting in Paris, in the Jardin des Tuileries, is expressing a positive sentiment, and that is important: to be on the side of people who use creativity and not violence. This piece encourages people to be careful and stay connected to positive expressions, culture, and all kinds of things – because this is what the world needs.

This work is based on a 1979 drawing of a prototype for a lamp. How does it feel to revisit a design over 40 years later?

The expression of that object is still very valid. It is a symbol of love, and love is something that we cannot do without. Love is part of our lives. It’s also important to consider that art, design, architecture, etc., all have to be expressed in forms that are recognizable for people – namely figurative forms. It allows these objects to go beyond the idea of comfort or function and really engage with reality.

I often feel that design is repeating itself – and losing the energy it had 40 years ago. Designers need something new, an opening to something else. This something else is design that can express love, design that can express culture, content that is related to philosophy, to religion, social realities, etc. In this way, design can be a real culture – and it can even be art. Design is perhaps the art of tomorrow.

What do you think happens when a functional object like a lamp becomes a sculpture in a public space?

An object in a public space can make people think. It can help people understand our time, the cultural place they are in. This sculpture has the function of making people think about the relevance, the importance of love, the importance of positive feelings, and of reconnecting with others.

More generally, what role do you give to emotions in your work?

Emotions talk to our guts. They address our stomach irrationally before going to our brains. Art is in a delicate moment. It has become very decorative, very superficial. Architecture has become totalitarian; everywhere looks the same, which presumes that we are all the same – and that’s not true. We are all different, with different needs, and need different images for each place. Objects have the right, like human beings, to be different. They can continue to be functional and practical, but from now on, objects also want to have the right to express philosophical ideas, political ideas, and so on. This is the future of design.

Through you, I want to communicate this to young designers, because as far as I can see, they are all doing the same thing. I did a sofa which talked about the city: a sofa can be not only comfortable, but it can also tell a story. Half a century ago, I made a chair that talked about the treatment of women in the world – which is terrible. Design can speak about something very serious, like the human condition.

Back in the 1960s, you embraced plastic and polyurethane resins when the prominent materials of high Modernism were wood, concrete, and glass. What was the promise of plastic back then?

Plastic is a bad name; let’s say synthetic materials. I can tell you millions of reasons why these are the materials of the future. A synthetic bottle of mineral water is very light, whereas glass is fragile and heavy. You don’t go to space with a glass bottle because it can break and create problems.

I use materials like resin, which is an alternative to glass. Resin is transparent, translucent, colorful, elastic, rigid – everything. Glass is the same but it is fragile and expensive. I don’t use wood because I am not a carpenter. I don’t use metal because it’s a material of the past. I don’t use stone because stone is the material of people living 5,000, 10,000 years ago. I use materials from my time because I want them to be witnesses of my life in the 20th and 21st centuries.

You’ve recently published a hefty monograph titled Gaetano Pesce: The Complete Incoherence, which looks back at your extraordinary career. Incoherence has long been a key concept for you. Why?

When I was 18, I started to understand that to be incoherent was a way to be free. If you are coherent, you are a prisoner of your ideas, and may remain so for a long time. Incoherence allows you to change your mind every day. This is freedom. I am very happy to be like that. Today, I’ll say one thing, tomorrow I’ll tell you something else – maybe something more interesting, if I have a good reason to do so. When someone says: ‘I’m coherent,’ it means ‘I am repetitive.’ I don’t think human beings’ minds are static. This is why I’m happy to be incoherent.

Your work has always been a response to the present moment. How do you stay relevant?

Through my curiosity. Curiosity allows you to look for something different. It is an essential component of the brain. I’ve always been like that.

Coline Milliard is Art Basel’s Executive Editor.

Gaetano Pesce’s Double Heart (2022) will be presented by Galerie Champ Lacombe in ‘La cinquième saison’ (‘The fifth season’) curated by Annabelle Ténèze in the jardin des Tuileries - Domaine National du Louvre during Paris+ par Art Basel 2023.

Published on October 10, 2023.

Discover the full public program of Paris+ par Art Basel 2023 here.

Caption for full-bleed image: Gaetano Pesce, Double Heart, 2022. Courtesy of the artist and Champ Lacombe Gallery.