From the political roots of her program to the changes that have affected the artworld, the veteran New York gallerist reflects on the milestones that have shaped her career

From Sol LeWitt to Tauba Auerbach: gallerist Paula Cooper on nurturing artistic talent for five decades

In this conversation with Clément Dirié and Lionel Bovier, gallerist Paula Cooper, whose eponymous gallery turned 50 in 2018,&nbsp;discusses some of her career’s defining aspects: her beginnings in 1960s New York City, her long-standing commitment to collaborative practices and the strong relationships she's fostered with artists, from&nbsp;<a href="https://www.artbasel.com/catalog/artist/6770/Sol-LeWitt">Sol LeWitt</a> to&nbsp;<a href="https://www.artbasel.com/catalog/artist/7036/Tauba-Auerbach">Tauba Auerbach</a>, for over half a century.Clément Dirié: When talking to Matthew Higgs you once said that you had wanted to start a gallery and to work with artists since you were 17 or 18 years old&mdash;at the time you were living in Paris&mdash;and that you couldn’t have done anything but art &hellip;Paula Cooper: Most of my time in Paris was spent looking at art and visiting galleries. I knew the exact location of every Degas and Manet in the Louvre. I had no idea what I was going to do or how to do it. I wasn’t even finished with school &hellip; But art was always on my mind, and I knew that I wanted to help artists. I purposely refused to learn how to type; I’d be damned if I would be anyone’s secretary. Never! When I moved to New York, not knowing how to do anything really, I worked for Chanel perfumes, then for the Japan Trade Center, which was rather hilarious and very interesting. The Japanese are so hip. It was the first year of Kabuki in New York and through a friend I met and spent the whole of their visit with the star Kanzaburō Nakamura and his wife. We saw Psycho, spent a lot of time with fans in transvestite clubs in the Village and sight saw. They became dear friends. I did many things until I finally began work at the World House Gallery, which was designed by Frederick Kiesler, with whom I became friendly. It was my apprenticeship and it was incredible&mdash;the gallery showed&nbsp;<a href="https://www.artbasel.com/catalog/artist/6737/Alberto-Giacometti">Alberto Giacometti</a>,&nbsp;<a href="https://www.artbasel.com/catalog/artist/10371/Jean-Fautrier">Jean Fautrier</a>,&nbsp;<a href="https://www.artbasel.com/catalog/artist/7357/Max-Ernst">Max Ernst</a>,&nbsp;<a href="https://www.artbasel.com/catalog/artist/6734/Jean-Dubuffet">Jean Dubuffet</a>, many European artists. The first show I ever installed was a&nbsp;<a href="https://www.artbasel.com/catalog/artist/7990/Giorgio-Morandi">Giorgio Morandi</a> exhibition. Cordier &amp; Ekstrom across the street (in Gagosian’s first space) became my hangout and Arne Ekstrom a good friend. Henry Geldzahler, who had just started his post at the Met, would stop by the gallery and bring me news about the contemporary art world. It was because of him that I first started attending ‘Happenings.’In 1962 or 1963 I met Steve Pepper, a graduate student of art history who had a space uptown on Broadway. He showed contemporary artists like Red Grooms, held performances and introduced me to artist&nbsp;<a href="https://www.artbasel.com/catalog/artist/27575/Bob-Thompson">Bob Thompson</a>. He later became a professor of art history at Johns Hopkins University and disappeared from the New York art scene. He was an important influence on me. He made me aware that a gallery could be free, something else, a space for all kinds of artistic endeavors.You opened your gallery in 1968, but before that you briefly ran a first gallery [Paula Johnson Gallery in 1964].Yes. I showed Bob Thompson &hellip; He, his wife Carol, and I became friends and frequently would hang out at the Five Spot. Walter De Maria had his first New York one-person show at the gallery, and through him I met a lot of other younger artists. I remember Walter’s opening: there were about 15–20 people&mdash;La Monte Young and Marian Zazeela were there, Simone Forti and Robert Whitman too&mdash;and at one point the room became silent, people sat down around the perimeter of the room and remained silent for about 5 minutes. It was the kind of mystical ‘event’ that Walter would inspire. All of this was very exciting to me.I had met artists at World House but not so many young ones. However I really didn’t know how to make the business side of it work. I married very young and got divorced around that time, too. I then went to work for Park Place [1965–1967], a cooperative of ten artists&mdash;five painters and five sculptors. I still work with two of them:&nbsp;<a href="https://www.artbasel.com/catalog/artist/7039/Mark-di-Suvero">Mark di Suvero</a> and&nbsp;<a href="https://www.artbasel.com/catalog/artist/13057/Robert-Grosvenor">Robert Grosvenor</a>, and I’m close to David Novros.

Lionel Bovier: They called themselves the ‘Park Place group’?That was the name of the street where they were originally located. I was there for two and a half years during which time I met <a href="https://www.artbasel.com/catalog/artist/6765/Carl-Andre">Carl Andre</a> and Sol LeWitt, who were my idols. I knew their work quite well, but I had never met them. It was a very small art world and artists of different disciplines supported each other&mdash; dancers, musicians, composers, visual artists. We did a concert with Steve Reich, for two nights. It was packed! I remember Philip Glass and Terry Riley played with the other musicians. I convinced Hohner, a piano company, to loan us equipment, telling them: ‘You’ll get tremendous publicity from this concert,’ and you know, they actually did! It was that kind of environment. Everyone was supportive of everyone else. Everyone was poor, everyone was young, and had time&hellip;Dirié: You organized readings of Gertrude Stein’s The Making of Americans and James Joyce’s Ulysses for 25 years at the gallery, you did symposia, and organized concerts with Pandit Prân Nath, S.E.M. Ensemble, the Chamber Music Society, and others. Where did this diversity come from?We had a continuous and varied series of concerts and dance at the gallery. Artists needed spaces to perform in. It’s good for the space too. I believe in karma &hellip; [laughs]How did this idea of Gertrude Stein and James Joyce readings every January come about?Jean Rigg,&nbsp;<a href="https://www.artbasel.com/catalog/artist/7276/Alison-Knowles">Alison Knowles</a>, and&nbsp;<a href="https://www.artbasel.com/catalog/artist/10581/John-Cage">John Cage</a> came to me with the idea, and I said: ‘That’s great! Let’s do it!’ And we did for years.The first exhibition you did in 1968 was a benefit exhibition. So there was also this idea of supporting political issues.Yes, I opened my gallery with an exhibition against the war in Vietnam. There was a great divide: people who were strongly pro and con. I had friends who wouldn’t speak to me because of my beliefs.In this exhibition, Sol LeWitt made his first wall drawing. It was really a seminal exhibition for this generation of Minimal and Conceptual artists.To me, these artists were already well known. Donald Judd,&nbsp;<a href="https://www.artbasel.com/catalog/artist/11122/Dan-Flavin">Dan Flavin</a>,&nbsp;<a href="https://www.artbasel.com/catalog/artist/11325/Robert-Ryman">Robert Ryman</a>, Carl Andre, etc. were already recognized as important artists by their peers. The show was put together by Lucy Lippard, Ron Wolin&mdash;who was Head of the Veterans Against the War&mdash; and the painter Robert Huot. The show was a benefit for the Student Mobilization Committee to End the War in Vietnam. It was a fabulous exhibition.Was it a message to open the gallery with such a show? Was it intended as a statement about the relationship between art and society?No. The way I approach things is more organic, not programmatic. It was about what I believed in, what many people believed in, and about true art. It was a way to act. Just act.Bovier: You were called an ‘activist’ gallery several times &hellip;We had many events at the gallery. We have manifested our support for many political, moral, and social issues as well as various disciplines in the arts.Speaking of activism, what was the atmosphere in New York like when you opened your gallery? Weren’t the majority of dealers male at that time?There have always been women dealers in New York. Edith Halpert was important. She dealt with work in the 1920s through the 1950s and she was very effective. There was also Martha Jackson, Eleanor Ward, Marian Willard, etc. But they never had the power or cachet that men had. They were often considered ‘second tier.’ The two biggest dealers, when I started, were Sidney Janis and Leo Castelli&mdash;Sidney was a great dealer. He bequeathed one of the most generous gifts ever to MoMA, with no restrictions.What is it like to be at the beginning of a historical moment and to see now, with the distance of time, what history has made of it? There’s a lot of interest, mostly genuine, for this period: a lot of documentation has been retrieved, a lot of publications have been done, some people even reenact shows of the past, and of course, commercial interest has been mixed with this research. How do you look at this?That’s a complicated question with many facets. It’s rewarding in many ways but it’s hard to look at, too. There are too many distortions and manipulations at play. The art world is so different, even from ten years ago, that any connection with the past seems dislocated. It has absolutely nothing to do with what we were doing, nothing at all.

If everything changed that means even the artists did?Of course, some artists are affected by this world. Thank God, some aren’t.What about the ways of collecting?The whole economic and global situation is constantly changing. It’s changed even since we began this interview!You say that major changes are happening now, but wasn’t this true already in the 1980s?The change was slower then. The number of changes has increased in such a way that there is no precedent. The first auction of contemporary works, the Scull sale, took place in 1973. There had never been a single evening sale devoted exclusively to contemporary art before. Thereafter, it never stopped.You’ve been working with artists such as Carl Andre over a very long period of time, so you’ve lived through changes.Yes, over a period of several decades, an artist’s financial success frequently ebbs and flows. It’s happened to almost everyone:&nbsp;<a href="https://www.artbasel.com/catalog/artist/6751/Andy-Warhol">Warhol</a>,&nbsp;<a href="https://www.artbasel.com/catalog/artist/7557/Frank-Stella">Stella</a>,&nbsp;<a href="https://www.artbasel.com/catalog/artist/7514/Robert-Rauschenberg">Rauschenberg</a>, etc.&nbsp;<a href="https://www.artbasel.com/catalog/artist/7219/Donald-Judd">Donald Judd</a> is the example I know best: he was well known but there was no market for his work in the early 1980s. We so believed in him, concentrated on the work, persistently exhibited it. We resurrected his career and made a huge market for him&mdash;then Pace stole him away! When you are working with artists, you have to be prepared for highs and lows. It’s normal.And you think that’s part of the gallery’s work to maintain that relationship with the artist even when it goes down?Absolutely.How many artists are, let’s say, at the core of your gallery?Something like 18 artists. We work with well-established, mid-career, very young artists, and, unlike 20 years ago, we also work with estates.Do you continue to bring in young artists?Yes! Most recently&nbsp;<a href="https://www.artbasel.com/catalog/artist/7046/Justin-Matherly">Justin Matherly</a>, Tauba Auerbach,&nbsp;<a href="https://www.artbasel.com/catalog/artist/7040/Matias-Faldbakken">Matias Faldbakken</a>, and&nbsp;<a href="https://www.artbasel.com/catalog/artist/13056/Liz-Glynn">Liz Glynn</a>. And we’ve also started working with&nbsp;<a href="https://www.artbasel.com/catalog/artist/11420/Charles-Gaines">Charles Gaines</a>, who is not a young artist but is new to the gallery.Dirié: Do you collect the artists you show?Early on, if I wanted to keep a work and a collector came along and wanted that very work, I would give it up. I thought it more important that it be out into the world. So I missed a lot of great opportunities. I’ve never been a big collector. I do have works that I love and are meaningful to me and of course quite a few by artists we don’t exhibit too&mdash;and I frequently drive people who work with me crazy because I say ‘no, no that’s not for sale.’ But I have a modest collection.I was surprised to discover that your first participation in Art Basel was in 1999, quite late compared to the creation of the gallery, which opened in 1968. Why is this?For a long time I thought that it wasn’t my job to ‘advertise,’ in the broadest sense of the term. I thus wouldn’t publish books, nor advertise in magazines, nor have a booth at art fairs. As for the fair, I thought ‘I’d better do it once before I die, just to see what it’s like, to experience it.’ The first time I visited Art Basel was right after documenta in 1972, and I was horrified! [Laughs] It was like an automobile show. I went straight to the Kunstmuseum after &hellip; I must say you see some wonderful works from time to time. One year, there was an exhibition of Max Beckmann’s portraits from the 1920s. That was very special. And then a lot of galleries started doing one-person exhibitions. When did that start?

Bovier: The ‘Perspective’ platform was created in 1979 to showcase young artists through solo shows. It modified itself over the years and reappeared in 1996 with ‘Statements,’ again for showing young artists. The ‘Unlimited’ platform and its large-scale installations started in 2000. They brought video in once as a separate sector, in the mid-1990s, through a sort of special gallery. Unlimited was, I think, a major factor of change for the fair as whole, because suddenly it really looked like an exhibition. Probably that had an impact on the way people conceived their own gallery booth: you also want to represent fully the capacity of the gallery to work on complex projects, not just on being transportable. But the project you mention could basically have been done any year by one of the modern art galleries &hellip;Dirié: Why did you decide to continue to attend the fair after 1999?After the first impulse of ‘I want to do it once,’ it worked somehow &hellip;Bovier: So, it’s been good for meeting new collectors?Now it’s very nice because I see people I’ve known for years in Europe and that I don’t see often. A lot of them don’t come to New York, or do so rarely. I also love to install works and we’ve always been very conscious of that aspect.I think your space is installed as if it were the gallery. It’s not about using all the space, it’s more about doing a nice show.Yes.Have you ever done special projects for the fair, like inviting an artist to do something specific for the booth?No, and some artists actually won’t participate in a fair, like Hans Haacke.I’m surprised to hear you didn’t want to publish books, as I’ve always seen you as having a great affinity with books. There are also connections with some of the artists you work with: one can see for instance a lot of Carl Andre poems in this fair; Sol LeWitt was a great amateur and a great maker of artists’ books, and co-founded Printed Matter.&nbsp;<a href="https://www.artbasel.com/catalog/artist/7052/Dan-Walsh">Dan Walsh</a>&nbsp;and Tauba Auerbach make books. There’s a thread of people who like books in your gallery. And some years ago you even opened a bookshop!I was always a voracious reader. My husband is a publisher and I love bookstores. But to me, at the time, publishing a book equaled self-promotion. If an outside entity like a museum published a book, it was different, it was a bona fide validation of the artist. Now, from time to time, we do venture into some publishing projects. We also have a little record label, Dog w/a Bone.Dirié: You gave an interview in which you said that the history of your gallery reflects the history of the art world over the last few decades in New York. How would you consider the legacy of the gallery, not only regarding artists and works, but also the spirit behind it and what you achieved?My history is not the history of the last decades&mdash;Gagosian is the history of the last decades. Leo Castelli, Sidney Janis were important dealers, in terms of placing great works by mostly great artists &hellip; What has been very important to me is to help an artist to succeed in the long term. Of course, I’ve been fortunate to work with many outstanding artists. The word ‘spirit’ is important. To help people see things differently, open their minds, infuse their lives with a wholeness, at least while looking at a particular work of art&mdash;to work magic of a sort.Top image: Paula Cooper in her New York gallery in front of a sculpture by Charles Ginnever, 1970. Photo by: Kurt Wyss.Extract from the Art Basel | Year 45&nbsp;book.&nbsp;